Transkrip Ucapan Pembukaan Datuk Seri Chua Soi Lek di Forum Hudud and its Implication on Non Muslim 4th December 2011 Organised by : Institute of Strategic Analysis And Policy Research (INSAP) Venue: 13th Floor Bangunan Wisma MCALadies and Gentlemen;
First of all let me thank all of you for coming. And also let me welcome all of you to the 13th Floor MCA Headquarter. We are all here to learn more about Hudud and its implication on non Muslim. I’ll regard this Forum as a political education that’s the reason why we meet and were happy that distinguished speakers and moderator have kindly accepted our invitation to share with us their fountain of knowledge on Hudud and its Implication on Non Muslim.
The word halt that we should call off this Forum and I was quite amused and amazed because I thought Malaysians lately has been calling the Government for more public space engagement and consensus building so to me this forum does no harm to anybody. It is a very peaceful assembly and I see no reason why it should be called off. (audience clapping hand)
I do not pretend to know more than anyone of you here about Hudud and Its Implication. So we are on the beginning of the learning curve about Hudud.
“Of course all of us know that PAS has been the champion of implementation of Hudud in this country, way back in 1993 Kelantan has already approved a PAS Hudud in the State Government. The then Prime Minister Dr Mahathir is disallowing because it was regarded as unconstitutional. Of late I can see that PAS is been pushing very hard maybe PAS think that it’s strong and is getting stronger everyday so it’s time to push the Hudud button. “ And they have set up a high level Committee to implement Hudud. The Kedah government has also follow soon that if Kelantan does it we will do it. Of course if they are still in power.
“ And so today we talk about Hudud. All that I know Hudud under the Islamic Law is a set of punishment for crime committed under the Islamic Law.” And this will include rape, theft, robbery, adultery and in Malaysia I understand also expanded to include also the punishment of alcohol, treason, apostasy, slander accusation of adultery and so forth. And the only barrier to the implementation of Hudud as I know is the federal constitution. And we are glad the Chairman of the Bar Council Mr Lee Chee Wei with us here today and Edmond Bon (audience clapping) I’m sure they will enlighten us more.
Even before we go into Hudud, today in Malaysia we are confronted with a very contentious issue and that is the jurisdiction of the Syariah Court. All the distinguished and learned council here will tell you there are a lot of high profile cases. We have marriage registered under the Civil Law and then some day one of them decide to embrace Islam and this followed by divorce and often the unilateral conversion of the children to Muslim and this is often contested in court and I will not go into details and they are all stuck in the court at various level of the judiciary and there have not seen end of the legal tunnel.. the end.. the lights of the legal tunnel. And these are very simple cases involving marriage evolve and one of them decides to embrace Islam.
So if you were to talk about hudud which involve more crime, more activities under the public domain there in my simple mind it definitely affect Muslim and non Muslim because it involve theft, it involve rape, it involve adultery, it involve consumption of alcohol where Muslim and Non Muslim were definitely be involved. So in my simple layman term, I cannot accept people who says that Non Muslim has nothing to do with Hudud. To me that’s not a fair statement it has everything to do with Malaysia whether Muslim or Non Muslim if Hudud is implemented (audience clapped)
So talking about the Legal barrier to the implementation of Hudud right now I understand I have the opportunity to serve in UNESCO for 3 terms so I know the function of the States. The barrier to the implementation of Hudud will be the Federal Constitution which now only permits the State Government to enact law and punishment in a very limited way against people who profess Islam against the percept of Islam except in regards to matter included in the Federal List. And among matters included in the Federal List are Civil and Criminal Law and Procedure. And the clear intention of 1957 Constitution was to allocate all federal powers to the Federation and to confer in the States only residual power over Shariah offences like failure to observe compulsory fasting during Ramadan, drinking of alcohol and so forth… very limited power at the State level. And list 2 of para 1.. you look up.. at Schedule 9 and List 2 of Para 1 state that Shariah Court shall not have jurisdiction in respect of offences except in so far as confer by the Federal Law. So we are very clear and we don’t know how Kelantan can implement Hudud without amending the Federal Constitution.
So allowing Hudud will further blur the power and jurisdiction of the Civil and Islamic Court. How then will the rights and freedom of Non Muslim will be safeguarded. Which court will have jurisdiction which involve Muslim and Non Muslim. And Hudud Law cannot exist without the existence of the Islamic Law. So Islamic State and Hudud implementation were hand in hand so the enforcement of Hudud will evidently see Islamic Law being enforced in the multiracial country like ours.
“To PAS Hudud Law is the divine law of God. I’m sorry to say that.. so it cannot be challenged so if we’re to talk about Hudud in the public ..and I’ve done that.. that’s part of politics.. many police report has been launched against me for insulting Islam. So this is where today we are here…. It’s a divine Law non Muslim cannot even talk about it or challenged it openly. “
So if it does not affect us I only give a very good example a very simple example and I’ve to seek your pardon if I use a basic example of rape. You’ve a Non Muslim woman being rape by a Muslim man now whether this to be subjected Civil Court or Hudud. If it is subjected to Hudud the accused of a victim must produced 4 credible witnesses. So in term of Hudud .. credible witnesses means must be Muslim man; female are not credible witnesses, Non Muslim are only half credible as far as I know; if I’m wrong please correct me Ustaz, so Non Muslim like you and me are only half credible; woman not credible at all. So it is very lively that the victim a Non Muslim woman were never be able to get the rapist convicted. And what is more troubling is that the victim in this case the lady which being raped can be charged for zina or adultery. So who say Non Muslim are spared for Hudud law (audience clapped)
Furthermore since the lawyers are here I also should talk about some Human Rights ..lah. Furthermore it goes against the fundamental liberty guarantee to all citizens including Muslim under Part 2 of the Federal Constitution. So if Hudud is implemented in Malaysia it applied only to Muslim and not to Non Muslim which were then ran counter to the equality provision of Article 8 of the Federal Constitution. So a Muslim person would then be exposed to two separate persecution or conviction; one under Hudud and the other one under the Penal Code. And this is contradict to the prohibition against repeated trial in Article 7(2) of the Federal Constitution. “..ch.. trying to be more learned lah quote some of this… (audience laugh).
When come to social implication “when you judged a Muslim under one set of law and non Muslim on another set; it is a double standard in multiracial country and it does nothing in the process of justice and for social integration in multiracial country like us.” And this is the time bare it in mind ladies and gentlemen, when Muslim around the world any Malaysian are fighting for their personal liberty, the uprising in the Middle East motivated by the people desire for job, education freedom, good governance and democracy.
So implementing this law is seen as a step backward and as you’re aware and as we’re a multiracial country. Any disagreement with the Muslim community whether you like it or not will definitely affect all of us. If the Muslim community that numbers about 63% have problem we as a Non Muslim will also have problem. This is the political reality that we’ve to accept.
“Hudud is controversial even at the international level because most of the punishment imposed are said to be in violation of basic human right. Does it even doesn’t affect the non Muslim, under the 1 Malaysia spirit no one should be subjected ‘in my humble opinion’ to such a brutal and yet gender biased set of punishment.”
Representing the right of other religious committee and living in peace and harmony and what we called having a system that is fair and compassionate is an important requirement of the Shariah. That’s far as I know about it.
“When you talk about the impact of Hudud and it’s Economy. I would say that it is far reaching. When you have a set of punishment which is very gender biased against a lady and which is perceived to be cruel in violation of the human right; the Malaysia standard in the International level will be very badly affected whether you like or not. And thus will affect our current effort to attract what we called Foreign Direct Investment. And we need this investment as you know to reach a status of a high income nation by 2020. And it will also not only affecting FDI but it will also affect reinvestment. It will may cause investor multinational to pull out of Malaysia.” And when this happen all sectors of the economy are affected. And when all the sectors of the economy is affected every Malaysian irrespective of race, religion and creed will be affected.
And a very simple example “I can’t imagine when suddenly the Government decided that we implement Hudud . As I would say the KLSE composite Index will drop badly 10% or 20%.” This is a possibility that we cannot discount and when ths happen it will whip up billion in pay up and market capital. All this will affected all sectors of the economy Muslim or Non Muslim.
“ And the more I would say well within the country when you’ve Hudud there will be a lot of do’s and don’t affecting the Muslim, There will be a lot of ‘moral policing’ they will call it, alcohol, betting retail outlet will be reduced. As you’re aware Kelantan ban betting and we have taken Kelantan Government to the court. (audience clapping hand)” . But the will of the process of justice takes a very long time in Malaysia maybe the Bar Council chairman can enlighten us (audience laugh). So when this happen a lot of job will be affected, a lot of businesses will be closed, revenue will drop definitely and there will be more jobless people. There will be shortfall in budgeted and the national deficit will definitely increased so national development will also be affected and I give a very good example is Genting.
And to be honest two weeks ago when I was invited to Genting to officiate a closing ceremony, it was a very simple ceremony a national event with no speeches required just gave away prizes, it is an event which we called ‘tunjuk muka’ show your face. When I leave the hall I was surrounded by many reporters and TV. And when I sat down I don’t know what to tell the Press so I suddenly I say that: “If PAS came to power at the Federal level or I didn’t say even at the State level, the first victim will be Genting it will be close down because of the casino or whether you like or not Genting provide employment to 15,000 people direct employment, taxes direct by Genting is 1 billion a year and Genting attract 20 million tourists a year; at a spin of fact is tremendous. So as I said Genting will be the first to close.”
So I must thank a senior PAS leader who confirmed that it is true what President MCA say is true when we come in power in Pahang they didn’t talk about Federal, the first day we do is to close down Genting (audience clapping hand with an excitement shout) so I cannot draw a conclusion if you close down Genting it will not affect the Non Muslim. It definitely affects the Non Muslim more than the Muslim in this case.
So in conclusion I would suggest as a matter of transparency that PAS should include Hudud and its implementation in the General coming Election Manifesto (audience clapping hands) and since they all say and tell us that they never do without consulting their partner so I would humbly suggest in this forum today that the implementation of Hudud become the common agenda of Pakatan Rakyat (audience clapping hand). Then if the rakyat vote the Pakatan Rakyat both State and Federal and rakyat are the stakeholder of the nation… don’t forget. And if they vote Pakatan Rakyat knowing full well that they will implement Hudud after that we have to respect because it is the voter choice (applaud). Put it in the Manifesto! Lay down the cards on the table so that the rakyat can decide… agree or not (audience response Yes.. clapping hand) instead we received conflicting signal, PAS want to implement Hudud, Keadilan the unelected supreme leader Ketua Umum of Keadilan multiracial party suddenly say that , “Oh I support Hudud too…” (audience respond …Personal ) No there’s no such thing as personal. (audience laugh). So he support Hudud. Now what is amusing and what is in my simple mind as an ageing person (audience laugh) if you notice that none of the Non Muslim leaders in Keadilan has dare to open their mouth (audience shout Ya.. clapping hand) so it is not easy to be an unelected leader of a Ketua Umum because when you are unelected… nobody dare to object to you. (audience laughed) Understand! (audience laughed). For me you can object because some of you may not want to elect me anymore (audience laugh) so that’s the advantage of what we called maybe… “benevolence democracy unelected top down”. None of the Non Muslim leaders including one of our ex colleague and comrade (audience clapping hand) and he is one the most mockup person I’ve met. As part of their strategy they will say we have no two third so don’t worry, non muslim do not have to worry, we have no two third.
Now this is simple arithmetic. If Pas came to power, you add Keadilan members inside and since the Non Muslim in Keadilan is keeping quiet we assume that they also support Hudud…. Agree?...(audience response Yeah.. clapping hand) and then Muslim MPU will be subjected to a tremendous pressure because as I understand all Muslim has to support Hudud but whether it support the implementation is different story. You support Hudud but you may not support its implementation this is two different things so there is always the possibility.. please… I hope the press can emphasize this point (audience response Yeah.. clapping hand)… as part of their strategy ! (clapping hands). You’ve PAS, you’ve Keadilan and you’ve Muslim MPs who felt compelled by their religious calling to support PAS.. eh.. to support Hudud not necessarily its implementation.
Then you come to DAP. “Agreeing to disagree” (audience laugh). Maybe the lawyers will enlighten us what it means by ‘agree to disagree’ (audience laugh). To me I read it this way it is a deception, it is disillusion, it is an illusion to say that “Oh its well to say that we agree to disagree… we agree to capture the crown jewel.. Putrajaya. And after we capture we disagree with the implementation of Hudud and if the rakyat suffer yes.. its too bad you’ve supported us now you’ve to wait 5 more years ( audience shout yes.. clapping hand). So I will interpret agree to disagree as this… Agreed to conquer Putarajaya on already we succeed to achieve.. we disagree about the implementation. So we can quarrel and the rakyat can suffer. It’s just like the Roman Emperor playing its musical instrument while Roman burns at night. Maybe Prof Chandra will tell me the name and he will know better than me anytime. The other thing we can see is the rather the dishonest way of telling Chinese in this country…. I’m sorry to say that…on one hand DAP say we oppose Hudud and on the other hand if you notice in the just last general election and the subsequent 16 by election, DAP campaign vigorously to ensure if there is a PAS candidate that they will win. And this is something contradict. On one hand you opposed on the other hand you want to ensure the very party that you opposed the candidate must win the election. Where got meaning like that… (audience response Yeah…) in my simple English you say where got meaning….(audience laugh). So in short the three people could not… the three parties could not agree on a common agenda. And today we urge them please put Hudud into your Pakatan Rakyat Common Agenda (audience clapping hand). Let the rakyat decide…(audience clapping hand)
“There are people who float around the idea that Hudud will be good for corruption. Malaysia is not doing well in our international conception on what we called Corruption Index. One… when you get one and in this case you’re the most corrupted. 10 you’re the perfect government very clean. Malaysia very difficult to get beyond 5. And if you look at 11 nations who practices Hudud as a capital punishment. Only 2 countries have a score of more than 5 i.e UAE and Sultanate of Oman, even the great kingdom of Saudi is not so good. And the rest… you have a look… Iran, Pakistan, Mauritius, Yemen, Nigeria, Republic of Sudan, Afghanistan; Somalia is the best 1.1 (audience laugh). So out of the 11 nations only 2 have a score of more than 5.” So if you want to console yourself that we do not have Hudud.. we do not score so badly compare to Somalia but that is not what a point I’m trying to drive at. I am trying to drive at to say that this chart debunk especially the DAP we need Hudud to weep out the corruption and there are 11 countries that we show you on the chart…. 2 score beyond 5, UAE and Sultanate of Oman, the rest all below 2.5; besides Saudi which score 4.2 .. I think. The rest…. please do not aspire to achieve that status. If we achieve that status then all of us will go to “QURAN” they call it (audience laugh).
So ladies and gentlemen; this is a little thing I know about Hudud and we all ears to listen to our learned council distinguished speakers and moderators who I told you to share with us their view on Hudud and its implication on Non Muslim.
Thank you ladies and gentlemen.
KEMANA PERGINYA PEJUANG-PEJUANG AGAMA DALAM UMNO BILA MCA CSL TERGAMAK MEMBIDAS MEREKA.. KEMANA PERGINYA PARA-PARA PENADAH KITAB MATHLAIL BADRIN BILA CSL DENGAN BERANI DAN ANGKUH MENGHARDIK MEREKA. BANGKITLAH DARI TIDURMU DAN KEALPAANMU WAHAI KITA UMAT ISLAM. KITA TIDAK DITAKUTI DAN DIGERUNI.